Sober AF, Michael Scott Phobia, and How to Politely End a Conversation
The Curiosity Shop with Brené Brown and Adam Grant
What Are We Talking About Today?
0:00,0
10 min
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2:00
4:00
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30:00
1:00:00
1x
Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!
You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop).
Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996)
The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston
I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS
The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC
Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science
Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast)
Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)
The Madison - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series)
Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series)
Opening Up Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica
Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics
Ending Social Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology3)
Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book)
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Raw Description
<p>Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great! </p> <p><br>You can find The Curiosity Shop on <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop?sub_confirmation=1__;!!IBzWLUs!RWqxtWpgX9qIU0K15Jk0Nrnx-YKMF7Os5xTWxu7a9mkwDxjxHvdtnlwWDkohXXB5WP5oJJJlosKZ9PkHdN2fEiwkC4kTFsRe6vA$"><u>YouTube</u></a> and <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop__;!!IBzWLUs!RWqxtWpgX9qIU0K15Jk0Nrnx-YKMF7Os5xTWxu7a9mkwDxjxHvdtnlwWDkohXXB5WP5oJJJlosKZ9PkHdN2fEiwkC4kTGyawp5c$"><u>Instagram</u></a> (@thecuriosityshop).</p> <p><br></p> <p>0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today?</p> <p>5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety </p> <p>16:30 - Grieving for Joy</p> <p>28:22 - Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office?</p> <p>43:18 - Loving or Hating Violating the Rules</p> <p>49:30 - The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully</p> <p>1:03:40 - The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit</p> <p>1:08:39 - What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now</p> <p><br></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.gottman.com/about/research/"><em>Gottman Institute - Research and History - </em><u>Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://brenebrown.com/podcast/the-love-prescription-part-2-of-3/"><em>The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3</em><u> - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022, Unlocking Us Podcast</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_the_power_of_vulnerability"><em>The Power of Vulnerability </em><u>- Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong"><em>Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong</em><u> - Johann Hari, 2015, TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://faculty.wharton.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Dai_Fresh_Start_2014_Mgmt_Sci.pdf"><em>The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior </em><u>- Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014, Management Science</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://brenebrown.com/book/daring-greatly/"><em>Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead</em><u> - Brené Brown, 2012, book, Gotham Books</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnHiAWlrYQc"><u>I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0N2ZxQJYTw"><em>The Office: Scott's Tots</em><u> - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://leeds-faculty.colorado.edu/mcgrawp/pdf/mcgraw.warren.2010.pdf"><em>Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny </em><u>- McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://officeladies.com/"><em>Office Ladies </em><u>- Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/MASTROIANNI2021.pdf"><em>Do Conversations End When People Want Them To? </em><u>- Mastroianni et al., 2021, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Politeness-Universals-Language-Interactional-Sociolinguistics/dp/0521313554"><em>Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage</em><u> - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.gottman.com/blog/want-to-improve-your-relationship-start-paying-more-attention-to-bids/"><em>Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids </em><u>- Logan Ury, 2026, Gottman Institute</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221733188_The_Virtues_of_Gossip_Reputational_Information_Sharing_as_Prosocial_Behavior"><em>The Virtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior</em><u> - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Jury-Duty-Season-1/dp/B0B8JM2BBS"><em>Jury Duty </em><u>- Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series) </u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Jury-Duty-Presents-Company-Retreat/dp/B0GMYJLHK6"><em>Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat</em><u> - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/the-madison/"><em>The Madison</em><u> - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/landman/"><em>Landman</em><u> - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series)</u></a></p> <p><a href="https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/MASTROIANNI2021.pdf"><em>Opening Up Closings</em><u> - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://wpel.gse.upenn.edu/sites/default/files/archives/v18/v18n2_Jeon.pdf"><em>Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session</em><u> - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/48516906_Collaborative_Strategies_in_Chinese_Telephone_Conversation_Closings_Balancing_Procedural_Needs_and_Interpersonal_Meaning_Making"><em>Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings</em><u> - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/0022-1031(78)90048-3"><em>Ending Social Encounters </em><u>- Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1093/sf/51.4.504"><em>Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order </em><u>- Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book</u></a>)</p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/S0378-2166(98)80006-4"><em>Sorry for Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse</em><u> - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1468-2958.1998.tb00438.x"><em>Getting Down to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations</em><u> - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/j.socscimed.2013.08.027"><em>Negotiating Last-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters</em><u> - </u><em>Park, 2013, Social Science & Medicine</em></a></p> <p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p>
Chapters (1/8)
Show Notes
Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great!
You can find The Curiosity Shop on YouTube and Instagram (@thecuriosityshop).
Gottman Institute - Research and History - Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996)
The Power of Vulnerability - Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston
I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS
The Office: Scott's Tots - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC
Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny - McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science
Office Ladies - Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast)
Jury Duty - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)
The Madison - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series)
Landman - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series)
Opening Up Closings - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica
Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics
Ending Social Encounters - Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology3)
Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order - Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book)
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Raw Description
<p>Marking a major personal milestone, Brené shares what led her to 30 years of sobriety and Adam asks what it taught her about change. From there, they pivot to why Brené can’t tolerate the cringe of The Office —and Adam’s take on how to engage with it. Finally, they deliver a masterclass on the art and science of ending social interactions, sharing the ultimate shortcut to a graceful exit. This is great! </p> <p><br>You can find The Curiosity Shop on <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/@TheCuriosityShop?sub_confirmation=1__;!!IBzWLUs!RWqxtWpgX9qIU0K15Jk0Nrnx-YKMF7Os5xTWxu7a9mkwDxjxHvdtnlwWDkohXXB5WP5oJJJlosKZ9PkHdN2fEiwkC4kTFsRe6vA$"><u>YouTube</u></a> and <a href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.instagram.com/thecuriosityshop__;!!IBzWLUs!RWqxtWpgX9qIU0K15Jk0Nrnx-YKMF7Os5xTWxu7a9mkwDxjxHvdtnlwWDkohXXB5WP5oJJJlosKZ9PkHdN2fEiwkC4kTGyawp5c$"><u>Instagram</u></a> (@thecuriosityshop).</p> <p><br></p> <p>0:00 - What Are We Talking About Today?</p> <p>5:00 - Sober AF: Celebrating 30 Years of Sobriety </p> <p>16:30 - Grieving for Joy</p> <p>28:22 - Why Can’t Brené Watch The Office?</p> <p>43:18 - Loving or Hating Violating the Rules</p> <p>49:30 - The Art of Leaving Conversations Respectfully</p> <p>1:03:40 - The Shortcut to a Graceful Exit</p> <p>1:08:39 - What Adam and Brené Are Watching Now</p> <p><br></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.gottman.com/about/research/"><em>Gottman Institute - Research and History - </em><u>Drs. Julie and John Gottman (Founded 1996)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://brenebrown.com/podcast/the-love-prescription-part-2-of-3/"><em>The Love Prescription, Part 2 of 3</em><u> - Brene Brown with Drs John and Julie Gottman, 2022, Unlocking Us Podcast</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_the_power_of_vulnerability"><em>The Power of Vulnerability </em><u>- Brené Brown, 2010, TED Talk, TEDxHouston</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/johann_hari_everything_you_think_you_know_about_addiction_is_wrong"><em>Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong</em><u> - Johann Hari, 2015, TED Talk, TEDGlobalLondon</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://faculty.wharton.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Dai_Fresh_Start_2014_Mgmt_Sci.pdf"><em>The Fresh Start Effect: Temporal Landmarks Motivate Aspirational Behavior </em><u>- Dai, Milkman & Riis, 2014, Management Science</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://brenebrown.com/book/daring-greatly/"><em>Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead</em><u> - Brené Brown, 2012, book, Gotham Books</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnHiAWlrYQc"><u>I Love Lucy: Job Switching - Arnaz, 1952, CBS</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0N2ZxQJYTw"><em>The Office: Scott's Tots</em><u> - B.J. Novak, 2009, NBC</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://leeds-faculty.colorado.edu/mcgrawp/pdf/mcgraw.warren.2010.pdf"><em>Benign Violations: Making Immoral Behavior Funny </em><u>- McGraw & Warren, 2010, Psychological Science</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://officeladies.com/"><em>Office Ladies </em><u>- Fischer & Kinsey, 2019-present, Audacy (Podcast)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/MASTROIANNI2021.pdf"><em>Do Conversations End When People Want Them To? </em><u>- Mastroianni et al., 2021, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Politeness-Universals-Language-Interactional-Sociolinguistics/dp/0521313554"><em>Politeness: Some Universals in Language Usage</em><u> - Brown & Levinson, 1987, Cambridge University Press (Book)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.gottman.com/blog/want-to-improve-your-relationship-start-paying-more-attention-to-bids/"><em>Want to Improve Your Relationship? Start Paying More Attention to Bids </em><u>- Logan Ury, 2026, Gottman Institute</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221733188_The_Virtues_of_Gossip_Reputational_Information_Sharing_as_Prosocial_Behavior"><em>The Virtues of Gossip: Reputational Information Sharing as Prosocial Behavior</em><u> - Feinberg, Willer, Stellar & Keltner, 2012, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Jury-Duty-Season-1/dp/B0B8JM2BBS"><em>Jury Duty </em><u>- Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2023-2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series) </u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Jury-Duty-Presents-Company-Retreat/dp/B0GMYJLHK6"><em>Jury Duty Presents: Company Retreat</em><u> - Eisenberg & Stupnitsky, 2026, Amazon Prime Video (Television Series)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/the-madison/"><em>The Madison</em><u> - 2026, Sheridan, Paramount+ (Television Series)</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/landman/"><em>Landman</em><u> - Sheridan, 2024-present, Paramount+ (Television Series)</u></a></p> <p><a href="https://dtg.sites.fas.harvard.edu/MASTROIANNI2021.pdf"><em>Opening Up Closings</em><u> - Schegloff & Sacks, 1973, Semiotica</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://wpel.gse.upenn.edu/sites/default/files/archives/v18/v18n2_Jeon.pdf"><em>Closing the Conversation: Evidence from the Academic Advising Session</em><u> - Hartford & Bardovi-Harlig, 1992, Discourse Processes</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/48516906_Collaborative_Strategies_in_Chinese_Telephone_Conversation_Closings_Balancing_Procedural_Needs_and_Interpersonal_Meaning_Making"><em>Collaborative Strategies in Chinese Telephone Conversation Closings</em><u> - Sun, 2005, Pragmatics</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/0022-1031(78)90048-3"><em>Ending Social Encounters </em><u>- Albert & Kessler, 1978, Journal of Experimental Social Psychology</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1093/sf/51.4.504"><em>Relations in Public: Microstudies of the Public Order </em><u>- Erving Goffman, 1971, Basic Books (Book</u></a>)</p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/S0378-2166(98)80006-4"><em>Sorry for Your Kindness: Japanese Interactional Ritual in Public Discourse</em><u> - Ide, 1998, Journal of Pragmatics</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1468-2958.1998.tb00438.x"><em>Getting Down to Business: Talk, Gaze, and Body Orientation During Openings of Doctor-Patient Consultations</em><u> - Robinson, 1998, Human Communication Research</u></a></p> <p><br></p> <p><a href="https://doi.org/10.1016/j.socscimed.2013.08.027"><em>Negotiating Last-Minute Concerns in Closing Korean Medical Encounters</em><u> - </u><em>Park, 2013, Social Science & Medicine</em></a></p> <p><br></p><p> </p><p>Learn more about your ad choices. Visit <a href="https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices">podcastchoices.com/adchoices</a></p>